Topic: the nature of evil or iniquity
TheLonelyWalker's photo
Thu 06/12/08 11:38 AM
Edited by TheLonelyWalker on Thu 06/12/08 11:39 AM
And it was made clear unto me that those things are good which yet are corrupted, which, neither were they supremely good, nor unless they were good, could be corrupted; because if supremely good, they were incorruptible, and if not good at all, there was nothing in them to be corrupted. For corruption harms, but, less it could diminish goodness, it could not harm. Either, then, corruption harms not, which cannot be; or, what is most certain, all which is corrupted is deprived of good. But if they be deprived of all good, they will cease to be. For if they be, and cannot be at all corrupted, they will become better, because they shall remain incorruptibly. And what more monstrous than to assert that those things which have lost all their goodness are made better? Therefore, if they shall be deprived of all good, they shall no longer be. So long, therefore, as they are, they are good; therefore whatsoever is, is good. That evil, then, which I sought whence it was, is not any substance; for were it a substance, it would be good. For either it would be an incorruptible substance, and so a chief good, or a corruptible substance, which unless it were good it could not be corrupted. I perceived, therefore, and it was made clear to me, that Thou made all things good, nor is there any substance at all that was not made by You; and because all that You have made are not equal, therefore all things are; because individually they are good, and altogether very good, because our God made all things very good.

And to You is there nothing at all evil, and not only to You, but to Your whole creation; because there is nothing without which can break in, and mar that order which You have appointed it. But in the parts thereof, some things, because they harmonize not with others, are considered evil; whereas those very things harmonize with others, and are good, and in themselves are good. And all these things which do not harmonize together harmonize with the inferior part which we call earth, having its own cloudy and windy sky concordant to it. Far be it from me, then, to say, These things should not be. For should I see nothing but these, I should indeed desire better; but yet, if only for these, ought I to praise You; for that You are to be praised is shown from the earth, dragons, and all deeps; fire, and hail; snow, and vapours; stormy winds fulfilling Your word; mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars; beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl; kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth; both young men and maidens; old men and children, praise Your name. But when, from the heavens, these praise You, praise You, our God, in the heights, all Your angels, all Your hosts, sun and moon, all you stars and light, the heavens of heavens, and the waters that be above the heavens, praise Your name. I did not now desire better things, because I was thinking of all; and with a better judgment I reflected that the things above were better than those below, but that all were better than those above alone.

And I discerned and found it no marvel, that bread which is distasteful to an unhealthy palate is pleasant to a healthy one; and that the light, which is painful to sore eyes, is delightful to sound ones. And Your righteousness displeases the wicked; much more the viper and little worm, which You have created good, fitting in with inferior parts of Your creation; with which the wicked themselves also fit in, the more in proportion as they are unlike You, but with the superior creatures, in proportion as they become like to You. And I inquired what iniquity was, and ascertained it not to be a substance, but a perversion of the will, bent aside from You, O God, the Supreme Substance, towards these lower things, and casting out its bowels, and swelling outwardly.

St. Augustine, in his book confessions. Book 7, chapters 12, 13, and 16.

Abracadabra's photo
Thu 06/12/08 12:22 PM
But in the parts thereof, some things, because they harmonize not with others, are considered evil; whereas those very things harmonize with others, and are good, and in themselves are good.


That which we consider to be in harmony with our desire we judge to be good. That which we perceive to be in dissonance with our desire we judge to be bad.

All is subjective.

There is no such thing as absolute evil or iniquity. It’s all relative to our own subjective desire.

TheLonelyWalker's photo
Thu 06/12/08 03:25 PM

But in the parts thereof, some things, because they harmonize not with others, are considered evil; whereas those very things harmonize with others, and are good, and in themselves are good.


That which we consider to be in harmony with our desire we judge to be good. That which we perceive to be in dissonance with our desire we judge to be bad.

All is subjective.

There is no such thing as absolute evil or iniquity. It’s all relative to our own subjective desire.


Thank you for the insight Jamesdrinker

yashafox_F4X1's photo
Thu 06/12/08 03:40 PM
I don't believe evil is subjective. There is a standard for life. God laid it down in his word to us. We can either accept the standards and his offers to us, or we can reject them with God's consequences attached. Which will you do?