Community > General Religion Chat

Topic: Jesus died for me
MichaelATL44 Joined Wed 05/14/08 Posts: 178	Wed 05/21/08 05:56 PM
The payment that was made in that because our receiving the Holy Spirit we become reconciled back to God. Prior to that we are children of the devil, not neccesarily because of our actions but because we were born with the sin nature. I suppose you could say that satan has been defeated for those that receive the born-again spirit. Thats where he loses his power. When Jesus rose from the dead he stole back from satan the power of death, that is spiritual death. And because he did that, His Spirit is available to all who will accept that patment so to speak. Prior to the resurrectin, there was no way for man to be born again. God sacrificed his Son because he needed to dwell within a physical body to take back from satan that power that originally had been granted to man. God is Spirit. He gave authority over the earth to physical man. The only way for satan to be defeated was for Jesus, God in the flesh, to become human. By living the perfect sinless life, and by resurrecting from the grave, he re-gained the authority over the devil and that same authority is available to all who will receive it. God sent His Son because it was the only way to win-back, or reconcile human-man back to himself. Now instead of us belonging to the devil, the god os this present world, we have been given the same spirit that resurrected Jesus. God has great love for us and he became flesh in order to bring us back home. God certainly did not need to appease Satan. He just needed a physical body to work through to take back the authority that we gave to the devil by falling for his lies. Now, because of that sacrifice, we have a way to become "new". Man(wo-man) consist of spirit, soul, and body. Our spirit is the part of us that becomes born-again. The old-man, or sin nature, becomes replaced with the born-again spirit. It is our souls (mind, will & emotions, and our physical bodies that are yet to be redeemed. I seem to be getting a little off topic now.....Does that help answer any of your questions?

symbelmyne Joined Mon 01/14/08 Posts: 5356	Wed 05/21/08 05:58 PM
Hi there folks. Very interesting repsonses, indeed. Actially, everyone is going to live eternally. Receieivng Jesus in your heart replaces the sin nature that we were born into as a result of the fall. The ones that have ears to hear and eyes to see receive a brand new spirit and receive eternal life right here, right now. Not sometime off in the future. Those that don't will still live forever, just in Hell. I noticed the one dude that said he would rather choose death. It's not quite that simple my friend. The end of this physical body is not the end of your life. God is love. (John 4:24) He has so much compassion for us. It's not about a set of rules to follow, as some have suggested. It's about having a sincere and honest relationship with Him. Jesus was a man, but He was also God. God originally gave dominion over this earth to people. We became the "gods" of this world so-to-speak. We were to subdue all things. We were given all power and authority, in this realm. But we gave that power over to satan when we fell for his deceipt way back in the Garden. So every person from then on was born with this sin nature by default. God could not just wipe out satan without wiping out all of man kind, besides that He no longer had complete control over the earth, he gave that to us. Since physical man had dominion over the earth, God had to become a man and dwell in a physical body in order to defeat satan once and for all and regain complete control here on this earth. Because of all that, His spirit is now available for all who choose to accept, therefore, we that have been born-again now have the same Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead. Praise God! Satan has been defeated and we shall inherit the earth. So, I guess you could say.....yeah...I believe! sooooo....where does that leave the Jews?

MichaelATL44 Joined Wed 05/14/08 Posts: 178	Wed 05/21/08 06:04 PM
"Am I missing something important here ? . How can a man who eats ,drinks , has a penis , has an anus and get killed is God ? Are you kidding yourself or others ?. " Sorry.....have not figured out how to quote yet. YOur point was that Jesus was just a man. While yes, He was a man, He was also God. God created the world by the words He spoke. God said "let there be light, and there was light". Everything we can see in this physical realm was created by the power of Gods word. God's word is like a seed. It will produce after it's own kind. So how did God become a man? How was Jesus created? The virgin birth. How did this happen? Just like everything else God created, the angel spoke to Mary and told her she would bear a child. The angel planted the word of God like a seed into Mary's womb. And because she beieved and recieved this word, she conceived and gave to a physical birth from sperm, or a seed if you will, that had not been born with the same sin nature as all other men. That's how God became a man!

MichaelATL44 Joined Wed 05/14/08 Posts: 178	Wed 05/21/08 06:07 PM
Hi there folks. Very interesting repsonses, indeed. Actially, everyone is going to live eternally. Receieivng Jesus in your heart replaces the sin nature that we were born into as a result of the fall. The ones that have ears to hear and eyes to see receive a brand new spirit and receive eternal life right here, right now. Not sometime off in the future. Those that don't will still live forever, just in Hell. I noticed the one dude that said he would rather choose death. It's not quite that simple my friend. The end of this physical body is not the end of your life. God is love. (John 4:24) He has so much compassion for us. It's not about a set of rules to follow, as some have suggested. It's about having a sincere and honest relationship with Him. Jesus was a man, but He was also God. God originally gave dominion over this earth to people. We became the "gods" of this world so-to-speak. We were to subdue all things. We were given all power and authority, in this realm. But we gave that power over to satan when we fell for his deceipt way back in the Garden. So every person from then on was born with this sin nature by default. God could not just wipe out satan without wiping out all of man kind, besides that He no longer had complete control over the earth, he gave that to us. Since physical man had dominion over the earth, God had to become a man and dwell in a physical body in order to defeat satan once and for all and regain complete control here on this earth. Because of all that, His spirit is now available for all who choose to accept, therefore, we that have been born-again now have the same Spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead. Praise God! Satan has been defeated and we shall inherit the earth. So, I guess you could say.....yeah...I believe! sooooo....where does that leave the Jews? The bible says that the true Jews are those that are so inwardly and not outwardly. So therefore, I am a Jew!

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Wed 05/21/08 06:57 PM
Michael wrote: God sacrificed his Son because he needed to dwell within a physical body to take back from satan that power that originally had been granted to man. God is Spirit. He gave authority over the earth to physical man. The only way for satan to be defeated was for Jesus, God in the flesh, to become human. By living the perfect sinless life, and by resurrecting from the grave, he re-gained the authority over the devil and that same authority is available to all who will receive it. In other words, according to you what I had previously said is true,… God had to appease Satan by having himself butchered on a pole. Clearly this God is not all-powerful, nor all-wise. They say that with this God all-things are possible. Clearly not. They can’t have their cake and eat it too. This picture you’ve just described is not a picture of an all-powerful God. This is a God who had to bend to the will of Satan and appease him. And clearly it wasn’t even a final act since this will only apply to those who believe in it. This also flies in the face of John 3:16. John 3:16...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotton, that for who ever believeth in him, shall not perish but have everlasting last. It says here that only those who believe in Jesus will have everlasting life. Well, without everlasting life you can’t even go to hell. You’d just perish. So clearly to get into hell you have to first believe in Jesus. That will guarantee you everlasting life, but it doesn’t say where you’ll spend it. You could still wind up in hell. According to this story you’re better off not believing in anything. They you’ll know your fate with absolute certainty. You won’t end up being a pawn for two Gods to fight over. You’ll just perish and neither God will enslave you. The safest thing you can do with this story is to not believe it at all. I much prefer the pantheistic picture of God. Heaven’s a shoe-in. The Pantheistic picture of God is a picture of a truly all-powerful, all-wise, all-loving God. There are no demons to worry about, and death is not an option. In some ways that does seem sad, but then again, there would be no reason to want to die. No one is asking to enslave you or send you to eternal damnation. No need to die I guess.

star_tin_gover Joined Tue 04/29/08 Posts: 735	Wed 05/21/08 07:02 PM
He did not die for me for sure . If he could not save himself how could he save anyone ??!!. it wasn't part of the Master Plan... Yes Vanessa, so many do not understand that. It doesn't fit with THEIR plan. It's all about misperceived control of their own destiny that clouds the mind. Even cockroaches will run from the light into the darkness. Let the dead bury their own. Do I believe? Damn skippy I do!

MichaelATL44 Joined Wed 05/14/08 Posts: 178	Wed 05/21/08 07:05 PM
Thanks for your replies Abra....believe as you will.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Wed 05/21/08 07:10 PM
Thanks for your replies Abra....believe as you will. You’re welcome and I thank you for sharing your views as well.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Wed 05/21/08 08:39 PM Edited by Rapunzel on Wed 05/21/08 09:09 PM
He did not die for me for sure . If he could not save himself how could he save anyone ??!!. it wasn't part of the Master Plan... Yes Vanessa, so many do not understand that. It doesn't fit with THEIR plan. It's all about misperceived control of their own destiny that clouds the mind. Even cockroaches will run from the light into the darkness. Let the dead bury their own. Do I believe? Damn skippy I do! Amen !!! Yes, I agree.. What i should have added, with my last post... was that it wasn't part of the Master Plan for Jesus to save Himself and He gave Himself as a living sacrifice in atonement for the sins of the world ... again I say it is impossible for the mortal mind to rationalize & to be able to fully understand { the Trinity } God The Father, the Son, Jesus & the Comforter...the Holy Spirit... Ooooh , So Nice to hear from you , Bro ! Hope everything is going well for you and that You're getting some much needed & desired Rest & Relaxation once in a while

cutelildevilsmom Joined Sat 04/07/07 Posts: 8862	Wed 05/21/08 08:43 PM
John 3:16...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotton, that for who ever believeth in him, shall not perish but have everlasting last. Do you belive? i have a wee bit of trouble with the loved the world part.I mean look around.

cutelildevilsmom Joined Sat 04/07/07 Posts: 8862	Wed 05/21/08 08:45 PM Edited by cutelildevilsmom on Wed 05/21/08 08:45 PM
He did not die for me for sure . If he could not save himself how could he save anyone ??!!. it wasn't part of the Master Plan... Yes Vanessa, so many do not understand that. It doesn't fit with THEIR plan. It's all about misperceived control of their own destiny that clouds the mind. Even cockroaches will run from the light into the darkness. Let the dead bury their own. Do I believe? Damn skippy I do! what about that whole free will thing God gave us?cockroaches are pretty resilent ya know.

Abracadabra Joined Thu 04/12/07 Posts: 17851	Wed 05/21/08 09:00 PM
The Bible started out being about the need to appease a bloodthirsty God. Now it somehow ended up being all about a need to appease the Christians. It reminds me of those games we use to play in grade school where everyone sits around in a circle and the first person is told something in secret. Then everyone whispers it to the person sitting beside them until it goes all the way around the room. By the time it gets to the last person it’s something completely different from what it started out to be.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Wed 05/21/08 09:38 PM Edited by Rapunzel on Wed 05/21/08 10:01 PM
The Bible started out being about the need to appease a bloodthirsty God. Now it somehow ended up being all about a need to appease the Christians. It reminds me of those games we use to play in grade school where everyone sits around in a circle and the first person is told something in secret. Then everyone whispers it to the person sitting beside them until it goes all the way around the room. By the time it gets to the last person it’s something completely different from what it started out to be. that is very true... Abra...You know, i have to admit, you really do make a lot of sense sometimes to me... i do understand part of where you are coming from... but, i still believe, anyway... because it does ring true with me... & miracles have happened in my own life I don't understand everything...by far... so please don't ask me to explain it... but there have been some very heavy episodes! Like real miracles have actually happened before my eyes and the eyes of others... For instance ... When i was a young wife with little twin babies and a toddler... we went to a church nearby called Christian Disciples Church... Well, there were a lot of young married couples with little children who went to that Church... We would have ladies prayer groups pretty often & we'd bring the children and let them play together and we ladies would pray together and have tea and snacks for the children sharing news and parenting tips and it was really nice... Well, one of the couples, Jeff and Paula had a toddler daughter and they just had a baby boy... they just had moved into another house and Jeff hadn't put a fence around the pool yet well, it was a big giant yard the pool was not close by ... Paula let Maggie go outside to play for just a few minutes while she changed the new baby's diaper ... and Maggie wandered off & fell into the pool in less than the time it took for Paula to change the baby's diaper... She went outside to check on Maggie and found her lying at the bottom of the pool she instantly dove in to retrieve her child... Well, there was lady who was a nurse and a missionary with her husband staying on Jeff & Paula's property at the time... Paula managed to get Maggie to the nurse & called 911 well, when the paramedics got there minutes later Maggie had every sign of brain damage... We were at one of those ladies prayer groups when this all happened We got the call and instantly started praying Phone calls were made all throughout the Church and probably the entire World and a great big prayer chain started and by the time the EMT's got Maggie to the Hospital She had made a complete recovery during the ambulance ride Today... She is very healthy & happily married & with two beautiful sons

cutelildevilsmom Joined Sat 04/07/07 Posts: 8862	Wed 05/21/08 09:59 PM
The Bible started out being about the need to appease a bloodthirsty God. Now it somehow ended up being all about a need to appease the Christians. It reminds me of those games we use to play in grade school where everyone sits around in a circle and the first person is told something in secret. Then everyone whispers it to the person sitting beside them until it goes all the way around the room. By the time it gets to the last person it’s something completely different from what it started out to be. that is very true... Abra...You know, i have to admit, you really do make a lot of sense sometimes to me... i do understand part of where you are coming from... but, i still believe, anyway... because it does ring true with me... & miracles have happened in my own life I don't understand everything...by far... so please don't ask me to explain it... but there have been some very heavy episodes! Like real miracles have actually happened before my eyes and the eyes of others... For instance ... When i was a young wife with little twin babies and a toddler... we went to a church nearby called Christian Disciples Church... Well, there were a lot of young married couples with little children who went to that Church... We would have ladies prayer groups pretty often & we'd bring the children and let them play together and we ladies would pray together and have tea and snacks for the children sharing news and parenting tips and it was really nice... Well, one of the couples, Jeff and Paula had a toddler daughter and they just had a baby boy... they just had moved into another house and Jeff hadn't put a fence around the pool yet well, it was a big giant yard the pool was not close by ... Paula let Maggie go outside to play for just a few minutes while she changed the new baby's diaper ... and Maggie wandered off & fell into the pool in less than the time it took for Paula to change the baby's diaper... She went outside to check on Maggie and found her lying at the bottom of the pool she instantly dove in to retrieve her child... Well, there was lady who was a nurse and a missionary with her husband staying on Jeff & Paula's property at the time... Paula managed to get Maggie to the nurse & called 911 well, when the paramedics got there minutes later Maggie had every sign of brain damage... We were at one of those ladies prayer groups when this all happened We got the call and instantly started praying Phone calls were made all throughout the Church and probably the entire World and a great big prayer chain started and by the time the EMT's got Maggie to the Hospital She had made a complete recovery during the ambulence ride Today... She is very healthy & happily married & with two beautiful sons that is a moving story...there are so many unexplained things in the world.God Bless her.

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Thu 05/22/08 10:07 AM
The Bible started out being about the need to appease a bloodthirsty God. Now it somehow ended up being all about a need to appease the Christians. It reminds me of those games we use to play in grade school where everyone sits around in a circle and the first person is told something in secret. Then everyone whispers it to the person sitting beside them until it goes all the way around the room. By the time it gets to the last person it’s something completely different from what it started out to be. that is very true... Abra...You know, i have to admit, you really do make a lot of sense sometimes to me... i do understand part of where you are coming from... but, i still believe, anyway... because it does ring true with me... & miracles have happened in my own life I don't understand everything...by far... so please don't ask me to explain it... but there have been some very heavy episodes! Like real miracles have actually happened before my eyes and the eyes of others... For instance ... When i was a young wife with little twin babies and a toddler... we went to a church nearby called Christian Disciples Church... Well, there were a lot of young married couples with little children who went to that Church... We would have ladies prayer groups pretty often & we'd bring the children and let them play together and we ladies would pray together and have tea and snacks for the children sharing news and parenting tips and it was really nice... Well, one of the couples, Jeff and Paula had a toddler daughter and they just had a baby boy... they just had moved into another house and Jeff hadn't put a fence around the pool yet well, it was a big giant yard the pool was not close by ... Paula let Maggie go outside to play for just a few minutes while she changed the new baby's diaper ... and Maggie wandered off & fell into the pool in less than the time it took for Paula to change the baby's diaper... She went outside to check on Maggie and found her lying at the bottom of the pool she instantly dove in to retrieve her child... Well, there was lady who was a nurse and a missionary with her husband staying on Jeff & Paula's property at the time... Paula managed to get Maggie to the nurse & called 911 well, when the paramedics got there minutes later Maggie had every sign of brain damage... We were at one of those ladies prayer groups when this all happened We got the call and instantly started praying Phone calls were made all throughout the Church and probably the entire World and a great big prayer chain started and by the time the EMT's got Maggie to the Hospital She had made a complete recovery during the ambulence ride Today... She is very healthy & happily married & with two beautiful sons that is a moving story...there are so many unexplained things in the world.God Bless her. Thank you So Much Jackie I love you

Rapunzel Joined Tue 08/22/06 Posts: 16246	Thu 05/22/08 10:11 AM
I love this poem.... i just wanted to share it A New Year's Day Poem O Thou whose glory fills the heavens, Whose bounty clothes the earth, To Thee a poem of thanks we raise For blessings from our birth. For that untiring love Thou dost, From day to day renew, O may it on our hearts descend Like heaven-distilled dew. For mercy great, unending still, Which gave up to the grave Thine only Son, the Sinless One, Our sinful souls to save. While entering on another year Our cares on Thee we cast, Beseeching aid in days to come Which cheered us through the past. That still the freedom may be ours To kneel down in Thy sight, And worship Thee at shut of day, And in the morning light. That from temptation's fatal paths Thou turn our steps away; And keep us from unholy thoughts That lead the mind astray. No more may lust of worldly wealth Command thoughts that are thine; Nor may we envy other's lot, Or at our own repine. Than all the riches earth can boast Or gems beneath the sea, We know the pious, humble heart, More precious is to Thee. How needful, then, to train our thoughts, And fan the heavenly flame Of faith, in the believing heart, Triumphing o'er sin and shame And holding by the Word, thou hast For grace and guidance given, Pass through this world in holy fear, True candidates for heaven. Charles Moir

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 05/22/08 12:55 PM
He did not die for me for sure . If he could not save himself how could he save anyone ??!!. Interesting point of view.

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 05/22/08 12:56 PM
John 3:16...For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotton, that for who ever believeth in him, shall not perish but have everlasting last. Do you belive? Not really.

Milesoftheusa Joined Fri 10/27/06 Posts: 5122	Thu 05/22/08 12:59 PM
He did not die for me for sure . If he could not save himself how could he save anyone ??!!. This is what the mockers said. Yahshua came as our example. He told us no greater friend has one than a friend who would die for you. Yahshua proved he is our friend.Shalom..Miles

Jeanniebean Joined Wed 01/30/08 Posts: 40028	Thu 05/22/08 01:00 PM Edited by Jeanniebean on Thu 05/22/08 01:01 PM
He did not die for me for sure . If he could not save himself how could he save anyone ??!!. This is what the mockers said. Yahshua came as our example. He told us no greater friend has one than a friend who would die for you. Yahshua proved he is our friend.Shalom..Miles I doubt the story itself is fact. So if the story is simply a myth or a passion play, then the question is a mote point.