Topic: some sincere reflections...
TheLonelyWalker's photo
Tue 05/06/08 08:48 PM
Edited by TheLonelyWalker on Tue 05/06/08 08:52 PM
...after reading the answers to my thread "an epiphany."
Mainly I found to things I would like to address. Please people who answered my thread do not take this as a criticism. As matter of fact it maybe a criticism towards christianity.
And for fellow christians. when i say criticism towads christianity i don't mean criticizing the message, but the way the message is carried.

1) Most of the answers point out the fact that christian churches focus too much in concepts of sin and hell. These concepts ofcourse bring guilt feelings. It's absolutely natural.
I have to insist in the fact that the nature of sin can't be denied (again my personal beliefs, not proselytizing or criticizing). Sin is there and is always going to be.
However, there is another thing which always is going to be there our nature as God's creatures. As God's creatures we are inherently good. Just because nothing bad can come from what is good itself, yet through the bad use of free will reflected basically in vanity and arrogance we tend to commit sins.
Let's put it in other words even if we have cast out God from our lifes we know by natural law that there are somethings that are just wrong. When we do those wrong things we are going against this natural law. I call it committing a sin. That's all. Whatever way we want to see we are committing a wrongdoing which will have some consequences onto us or others.
Now in what christianiy have failed (Catholic Church included) is in focusing all the teachings and doctrines in condemnation because of sin.
Thanks God the Catholic Church after the Concil Vatican II has opened its doors to a more human understanding of the inspired word of God.
Since Concil Vatican II the Church has insisted very strongly that because of my Lords resurrection sin has been destroyed.
Ofcourse we need to repent when we sin.
In other words (more secular words) when we do something wrong against a person most people feel sorry and apologyze.
Well the same happens if I know I have sinned I have to repent in the same way I apologyze to other person for a wrongdoing.
What God truely sees is our heart. What is going to give us salvation is our heart because what is in our heart is what we reflect in our actions.

2) The second thing I saw is that many of my nonbeliever friends said is that they expected some kind of physical manifestation of God.
I don't deny the existance of miracles, and God's action in some unexplicable things.
However, I cannot and I won't base my faith just and only just upon visible miracles.
To pretend that God is going to have some kind of factual communication with the human being is not an idea in accordance with what I have been taught.
I believe if at some point people expected such a thing is because they were educated in christianity in a wrong manner by whatever denomination they belonged before becoming nonchristians.
As I have said I find God in much more simpler things.
I really believe that God is very simple. It's us humans who like to make God so complicated.

I just want to remark very firmly that all the concepts I have of God are based upon a deep study of the Bible through the years.
A study which is not fundamentalist, but it's an objective study of the bible.
In a historical, cultural, literary, pedagogical, and doctrinal manner.
As the Pope John Paul II said: "truth cannot contradict truth."

None of these comments are intended to criticize anybody. this are just things i have been thinking after reading your answers. These comments represent just and only my very personal point of view.

TLW

yzrabbit1's photo
Tue 05/06/08 08:56 PM

but you do believe miracles like walking on water, rising from the dead, etc...

TheLonelyWalker's photo
Tue 05/06/08 09:08 PM
I do. Am I wrongdoing in any way whatsoever for believing in that?
Am i trying to convert you because I believe in that?
I believe in those miracle becuase they were done by the only one in the whole Creation who can make miracles.
If you ask if I have seen those miracles. No I haven't
If you aski why do I believe if I have not seen them. I do because they are in the Bible. I hold the Bible as entirely true (again me).
There several people who witness them
Another thing if u know how do I think. I have said that for the point in time when all this events occurred these visible signs where required for people to believe.
Now after 2000 years the faith have gained enough maturity, so it's no required.
History and science have given enough proof, at least for me.

yzrabbit1's photo
Tue 05/06/08 09:25 PM

I was just asking the question for clarification drinker

Abracadabra's photo
Tue 05/06/08 10:25 PM
The second thing I saw is that many of my nonbeliever friends said is that they expected some kind of physical manifestation of God.

I never expected a ‘physical manifestation’ necessarily. But I certainly expected some profound change. After all, that’s what the whole basis of it. Ask Jesus into your life and your life will never bee the same!

Well, if you ask Jesus into your life and nothing changes, then what?

One thing that I have noticed, is that many people who are ‘saved’ were in the pits of despair and they turned to religion and began to “believe” in something. Their lives changed dramatically.

That doesn’t surprise me in the least. You take someone who is down on their luck, or totally lost and hopeless, and give them hope (something to believe in) and it’s no miracle that it’s going to change their lives.

Maybe I never felt down enough? I’ve always felt great about life. So maybe when I asked Jesus to come into my life I didn’t notice any change because there was nothing to be ‘saved from’ at the time.

Maybe I should have become a drunkard or dope addict or become addicted or pornography or something like that first, so I’d have something to be saved from?

I just didn’t see any difference being with religion or without. Asking Jesus to come into my life never felt any different from before I had asked. It’s supposed to be different. That’s all I know. In what way I don’t know. All I know is I never felt anything different.

MorningSong says, “You’ll know, like you’ll know, like you’ll know, like you’ll KNOW!’

And this is what a lot of religious people claim. Well, if there’s any truth to that, then nothing happened for me.

But then, like I say, I never felt lost, alone, or depressed prior to that either. So I dunno. Maybe it only works for people who are in the pits of despair?

Jesus did say that he came for the sinners and not for the righteous. I certainly don’t mean to sound obnoxious, but despite what people may imagine, I’d really have to scrap the bottom of the moral barrel to come up with sins to confess. I think my biggest sin in the past ten years would be masturbation (if that really is even a sin). I’m not joking either. I’ve lived like a hermit with basically no social life for the past couple decades. I simply haven’t been involved in situations where sin was an option. laugh

I’d have to go clear back to my childhood to dig up any ‘real sins’. When I was a kid I used to lie to my mother and steal petty change from her purse. Cigarettes were 25¢ a pack back then, and I would steal a quarter out of my mother's purse to sneak out with my friends and buy a pack of cigarettes that we would go smoke in the woods. So I was guilty of lying, stealing, and destroying my body temple with smoke.

Me bad.

Later in high school I lied like a rug. I told the teachers anything they wanted to hear that would appease them. I didn’t care how big of a lie it was. But I really didn’t think of it as sinning at the time. I just thought of it as survival skills.

I also lied like a rug to my friends. When they sat around bragging that they screwed every girl in the school, I’d brag about how I did that plus I screwed ever girl from my church too! Yeah that was a big fat lie. I was actually a virgin clear into my 30’s. laugh

Yes, I lied like a rug when I was a kid. But I’ve already confessed and repented all that stuff back when I was still a Christian. I shouldn’t have to repent that again. Once should be enough shouldn’t it?

So today I guess all I have left to repent is masturbation and even that’s becoming a lie anymore. ohwell

Just can’t get it up like I used to ya know.

Maybe I’m being punished?

But fortunately the devil invented Viagra. devil

A whole new era of sin is just around the corner. bigsmile

Maybe after I get my prescription of Viagra I’ll finally have an obsession worthy of being be ‘saved’ from.

Britty's photo
Wed 05/07/08 03:05 AM


Thank you for sharing those thoughts Miguel.

very well put.

flowerforyou

yzrabbit1's photo
Wed 05/07/08 09:35 AM

I have to agree with you Abra. I don't drink, or smoke, or do drugs, . I never did. Never felt like I was in the dumps and needed to be saved. Also I was raised from an infant in the Church very involved at all times. I never was away to be brought back.



TheLonelyWalker's photo
Wed 05/07/08 05:40 PM
Thank you rabbit and abra for your comments