Aristoteles wrote on Posterior Analytics:
“All instruction given or received by way of argument proceeds from pre-existent knowledge.”
“The pre-existent knowledge required is of two kinds. In some cases admission of the fact must be assumed, in others comprehension of the meaning of the term used, and sometimes both assumptions are essential. Thus, we assume that every predicate can be either truly affirmed or truly denied of any subject, and that ‘triangle’ means so and so; as regards ‘unit’ we have to make the double assumption of the meaning of the word and the existence of the thing.”

Then on the Topics Aristotle wrote:
“Now reasoning is an argument in which, certain things being laid down, something other than these necessarily comes about through them. (a) It is a ‘demonstration’, when the premisses from which the reasoning starts are true and primary, or are such that our knowledge of them has originally come through premisses which are primary and true: (b) reasoning, on the other hand, is ‘dialectical’, if it reasons from opinions that are generally accepted. Things are ‘true’ and ‘primary’ which are believed on the strength not of anything else but of themselves: for in regard to the first principles of science it is improper to ask any further for the why and wherefore of them; each of the first principles should command belief in and by itself. On the other hand, those opinions are ‘generally accepted’ which are accepted by every one or by the majority or by the philosophers – i.e. by all, or by the majority, or by the most notable and illustrious of them.”

Furthermore, St. Thomas Aquinas states in his Summa Theologiae:
“Accordingly we conclude that just as, in the speculative reason, from naturally known indemonstrable principles, we draw the conclusions of the various sciences, the knowledge of which is not imparted to us by nature, but acquired by the efforts of reason, so too it is from the precepts of the natural law, as from general and indemonstrable principles, that the human reason needs to proceed to the more particular determination of certain matters.”
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As shown above due to the inductive process of reasoning, knowledge is acquire from generally accepted principles. Within the Christianity these are known principles of faith, also known as DOGMAS which are not demonstrable by reason, but they are accepted as universals. Through the light of grace and the Divine Providence. Men can induce through reason more particular concepts about God.
However, in order to do so this individual needs to have Faith. If there is no Faith any further reason is worthless.

TLW

Faith in the doctrine. Absolutely. That’s the basis of dogma. No question about it.

No Faith in his love.....and no matter what happens in life....that His Love never changes. For me anyway has nothing to do with doctrine......Only the relationship.

heart ya James and Miguel

Point being that it would be impossible to know about the relationship if it wasn't for the doctrine. A belief in the doctrine is paramount because without that, you have nothing to believe.

You only know what you know because, "The Bible tells you so".

It's entirely a belief that is based upon that doctrine.

My good friend you have an amazing ability to take one sentence out of a whole, and put it absolutely out of the context.
I never talked about doctrine. I have to agree with the sweet Debbie in the fact that more important than the doctrine is the relationship with the creator.
Doctrines are empty if they are not based upon a strong relationship of love with God which is reflected by how we express our love to our brothers and sisters.

Ever see that movie Dogma? Absolutely fantastic film! Loved to see George Carlin playing a Monsignor (or whatever). And parts were shot in New Jersey, I think, and that rocks!