Certainly makes you think that is for sure.

Have to really think about how you phrase things as well!

I am single because I haven't found anyone as crazy as me yet...

Had a pet catfish that was eaten by his cat. He was horrified at the cannibalism!

He is AWESOME! Great Friend to have!

The Evil Dead! Woohoo!!!

Great Wit!

Ok fine Criticize Jesus.

Let me think for a minute...

ummm. Ok, got it. He didn't name everyone specifically and Identify what they needed to do to be saved in the Bible. It would be nice to see my name so I know without a doubt I am doing the right thing.

Can't really think of anything else that is worth criticizing...

So, because Jesus lead a really good life that has little room for criticism, I am not supposed to talk about anything anyone ever does except if it is good??? Got it.

So, because I am Christian, I am barred from pointing out what Muhammad did in his life because it wasn't nice.

I still don't see how you can say I am being contrary to my faith by saying I don't love the Muslim religion.

don't see how you can say I am not being true to my faith by not praising Muslims in general. I don't praise any baseball teams either. Does that mean I am violating my faith because of that???

You really pull some weird stuff together to form a conclusion. Really twisted logic. I can see how you get there. But you cherry pick the pieces you want and ignore the point that is being made.

Still doing it...

Taking things out of context and making claims that were clearly not intended in anyway.

You want me to compare apples to oranges again and claim their equal.

A blanket statement about millions of people can in no way be compared to knowing one particular individual.

Find a Muslim that has done something that I would know about and I will say something positive.

The friends that I did have that were Muslim were very kind and willing to talk about anything. They were fun to be around and would joke about anything - except their faith. They didn't talk about it and would change the subject.

I cannot make that statement about All the people in a stadium let alone a whole state and you want me to make that as a blanket statement about an entire people.

I can criticize America if you like. That would be a better comparison...

Loving the people and loving the religion are two VERY different things. My factual statements regarding Muhammad's life are related to the religion only. I do not love the Muslim religion. That does not conflict in any way with my love for the people in that religion or Jesus telling us to love our enemies as well as our brothers.

There has been only a handful of times I have referred to the people in the religion and none of those times did I make any statements saying they are all to be feared or hated. Mostly, I feel sorry for them, especially the women that have to live there.

All I have really done is acknowledge what a lot of Muslim groups have said for a long time now. That they are our enemy. Remember when they declared war on the US back in the 80s??? They never called an end to that war...

Oh God Lord help me.

You asked whether or not I love Muslims. Now you are criticizing that answer.

There is nothing I can say that you will just accept. You keep asking question after question and rarely if ever answer any.

I'm tired of this. I said my piece. It is clear what I said and what it means. You love to ask loaded questions or even state it so there is no good answer.

Just answering your question is tasertly agreeing that I don't really love Muslims but only claim to.

There is no such thing as Christian abuse. So answering the question as also acknowledging that statement to be valid. There are those that abuse claiming it to be Chistian motivated. But to be a Christian means you love everyone. No abuse is possible.

I will not reply anymore unless you start making false accusations on my beliefs again.

*heavy sigh*

There is a very good likelihood you will discard everything I have said here and start using my statements of fact as proof of Christian hatred again ...

I guess as a Christian I cannot talk about any injustice because that means I don't love someone in that situation. Nice box you put us in. We must accept all abuse and can never speak out against it. If we don't we are hypocritical in your book.

Yes I do. Each person who is Muslim is worthy of being loved.

That doesnt change the facts of Muhammad's life.

What each Muslim does with their faith is their own choice, just as with Christians.

The only difference being - Muhammad's teachings were pretty much the opposite of Jesus when it came to taking up arms.

Jesus had Free Will. He had to. Otherwise there would be no point in the Devil trying to tempt Him. And His sacrifice would be meaningless if He had no choice.

He said, no greater love has a man than he that lays down his own life for his fellow man.

If He didn't have Free Will, that statement is nonsense.

The statements I make regarding the Muslim religion are statements of fact. They have nothing to do with how I feel.

What does it say about you when your interpretation of the facts I present is that I must hate them? If you really stopped to think about it, that means if you would have to accept the facts as true, then you are saying that you would hate them. You are not arguing the facts, you are arguing that I don't have a right to make factual statements that would lead someone to be afraid. That is all that you are doing when you continually say that I hate them. The only way I can change that perception of yours is to deny the facts of Muhammad's life.

I find it truly bizarre. The same people that tear down Christians as a hateful group will defend Muslims as peace loving despite the blatant evidence to the contrary in the Middle East. There are always excuses given to them saying either the Jews or the Christians have provoked them. They had no choice.

Well, ANY point you try to make that include any allegation that I hate Muslims is based on a false premise because I don't hate them.

Do you hate Christians? If you right now can answer that publicly and say yes you do hate Christians, then I will allow you to make these kinda of statements.

If you will not do that, please stop spreading false rumors about me.

I really don't like being told I hate a whole group of people based on one criteria. That is prejudice in the extreme. I have known Muslims in my life and have had Muslim friends. Please stop this. I am really tired of having to correct it.

Alright, to put it more specifically as you don't appear to want to understand what I'm saying: there is a definition of Christianity. Just as there is for all belief structures. People get together that have similar belief structures. Then they form a religion on that.

It is the same as defining atheism. Is that an organized religion???

I was trying to say that Christianity in and of itself is defined by a few specific points of belief. It is not an organized religion. It is a specific set of belief everyone that calls themselves Christian holds true.

It cannot be an organized religion or there would only be on Chritian religion not the dozen that exist today.

I would appreciate it if someone would ask me what I mean rather than Falsely assuming what I believe to be true.

I wasn't going to post on this thread again. Hadn't even looked at it in quite some time. The only reason I said anything was because my statements on Islam were being debated with an incorrect understanding of what I meant by all parties. It was being passed around as the truth of my beliefs and was totally false.

Again: Christianity does not call for the killing of people that hold different beliefs. It does however call for fighting evil where you find it.

The Catholic Stance on Hitler --- Neutral:

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/vat_hol12.htm

Involvement in the Nazi Holocaust:

The precise roles that the Roman Catholic Church played during the Nazi Holocaust is not known in depth. In particular activities by Pope Pius XII are not clear. As Eugenio Pacelli (1876 - 1958), he was the Vatican's envoy to Germany in the 1920's. As the Vatican's secretary of state, he negotiated a Concordat with Germany in the 1930s. This granted Roman Catholics freedom of worship. However, the Church agreed to become much less politically active. He became pope in 1939 at the start of World War II in Europe.

The pope's policy of neutrality may have been the least worse course. If he were to attack Hitler or his policies directly, then the Nazis might have retaliated. "...the Archbishop of Utrecht in July 1942 protested in a pastoral letter against the Jewish persecutions in Holland. Immediately the Nazis rounded up as many Jews and Catholic non-Aryans as possible and deported them to death camps..." 1

Some people have a distorted view of Pope Pius XII because of Rolf Hochhuth's 1963 play, "The Deputy" in which the Pope was portrayed as coldly indifferent to the Jews.

There are a few facts that are generally accepted:

Positive items:
bullet The phrase "righteous among nations" is a term which refers to non-Jews who helped saved Jews from the Nazis. It could be argued that Pius XII would certainly qualify for this honor, because he saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from death. One account estimates 750,000 lives saved. 2 Pinchas E. Lapide estimated 860,000. 3
bullet Pius XII did publicly condemn racist oppression -- in his wartime Christmas messages and at other times. However, the language that he used was so vague that it did not clearly refer to Nazi atrocities.
bullet Some Jewish groups, asked the Pope to remain neutral during the war so that he would be more helpful diplomatically.
bullet The church did directly condemn the Nazi policy of murdering mentally and physically disabled Germans in the 1930's. The Nazi's discontinued the program for a while.
bullet The Vatican hid 477 Jews during the war. Another 4,238 were hidden in church monasteries and convents. 4
bullet The pope spoke to a few select officials in private, encouraging them to help Jewish victims. 4
bullet In 1942, Pope Pius XII was preparing a statement condemning Nazi persecution of Jews. But he decided to not make it public because of events in the Netherlands. As noted above, Dutch bishops had protested against the exportation of Dutch Jews, with disastrous consequences.
bullet "In appreciation of what Pius did for the Jews; the World Jewish Congress made a large cash gift to the Vatican in 1945; in the same year, Rabbi Herzog of Jerusalem sent a 'special blessing' to the Pope 'for his lifesaving efforts on behalf of the Jews during the Nazi occupation of Italy'; and when Pius died in 1958, Israel's Foreign Minister Golda Meir gave a him moving eulogy at the United Nations for the same reason." 5

Negative items:
bullet Although informed of the massive Nazi attacks of synagogues and Jewish business in on Kristallnacht 1938-NOV, Pope Pius XII issued no public criticism.
bullet Although informed during 1940 to 1943 of Nazi atrocities in at least Austria, Lithuania, Poland, Spain, and the Ukraine, (including deportations to death camps) he made no public comments. 4
bullet Pope Pius XII "...never explicitly spoke out against Hitler." Actually, this is in error. He did condemn Hitler in a speech to the College of Cardinals, one month after the war ended. 2
bullet "He refused to join a resolution of the Allies condemning the Nazi crimes." 2
bullet "He never excommunicated any Nazi," 7 although he did excommunicate some German Catholics who supported cremation as an alternative to burial.
bullet "He never declared it a sin for Catholics to participate in the slaughter." 2
bullet In 1941 when asked about proposed anti-Jewish laws in Vichy France, Pius XII answered that the church condemned racism, but did not repudiate every rule against the Jews. 4

Again: Christianity does not call for the killing of people that hold different beliefs. It does however call for fighting evil where you find it.

The Catholic Stance on Hitler --- Neutral:

From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/vat_hol12.htm

Involvement in the Nazi Holocaust:

The precise roles that the Roman Catholic Church played during the Nazi Holocaust is not known in depth. In particular activities by Pope Pius XII are not clear. As Eugenio Pacelli (1876 - 1958), he was the Vatican's envoy to Germany in the 1920's. As the Vatican's secretary of state, he negotiated a Concordat with Germany in the 1930s. This granted Roman Catholics freedom of worship. However, the Church agreed to become much less politically active. He became pope in 1939 at the start of World War II in Europe.

The pope's policy of neutrality may have been the least worse course. If he were to attack Hitler or his policies directly, then the Nazis might have retaliated. "...the Archbishop of Utrecht in July 1942 protested in a pastoral letter against the Jewish persecutions in Holland. Immediately the Nazis rounded up as many Jews and Catholic non-Aryans as possible and deported them to death camps..." 1

Some people have a distorted view of Pope Pius XII because of Rolf Hochhuth's 1963 play, "The Deputy" in which the Pope was portrayed as coldly indifferent to the Jews.

There are a few facts that are generally accepted:

Positive items:
bullet The phrase "righteous among nations" is a term which refers to non-Jews who helped saved Jews from the Nazis. It could be argued that Pius XII would certainly qualify for this honor, because he saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from death. One account estimates 750,000 lives saved. 2 Pinchas E. Lapide estimated 860,000. 3
bullet Pius XII did publicly condemn racist oppression -- in his wartime Christmas messages and at other times. However, the language that he used was so vague that it did not clearly refer to Nazi atrocities.
bullet Some Jewish groups, asked the Pope to remain neutral during the war so that he would be more helpful diplomatically.
bullet The church did directly condemn the Nazi policy of murdering mentally and physically disabled Germans in the 1930's. The Nazi's discontinued the program for a while.
bullet The Vatican hid 477 Jews during the war. Another 4,238 were hidden in church monasteries and convents. 4
bullet The pope spoke to a few select officials in private, encouraging them to help Jewish victims. 4
bullet In 1942, Pope Pius XII was preparing a statement condemning Nazi persecution of Jews. But he decided to not make it public because of events in the Netherlands. As noted above, Dutch bishops had protested against the exportation of Dutch Jews, with disastrous consequences.
bullet "In appreciation of what Pius did for the Jews; the World Jewish Congress made a large cash gift to the Vatican in 1945; in the same year, Rabbi Herzog of Jerusalem sent a 'special blessing' to the Pope 'for his lifesaving efforts on behalf of the Jews during the Nazi occupation of Italy'; and when Pius died in 1958, Israel's Foreign Minister Golda Meir gave a him moving eulogy at the United Nations for the same reason." 5

Negative items:
bullet Although informed of the massive Nazi attacks of synagogues and Jewish business in on Kristallnacht 1938-NOV, Pope Pius XII issued no public criticism.
bullet Although informed during 1940 to 1943 of Nazi atrocities in at least Austria, Lithuania, Poland, Spain, and the Ukraine, (including deportations to death camps) he made no public comments. 4
bullet Pope Pius XII "...never explicitly spoke out against Hitler." Actually, this is in error. He did condemn Hitler in a speech to the College of Cardinals, one month after the war ended. 2
bullet "He refused to join a resolution of the Allies condemning the Nazi crimes." 2
bullet "He never excommunicated any Nazi," 7 although he did excommunicate some German Catholics who supported cremation as an alternative to burial.
bullet "He never declared it a sin for Catholics to participate in the slaughter." 2
bullet In 1941 when asked about proposed anti-Jewish laws in Vichy France, Pius XII answered that the church condemned racism, but did not repudiate every rule against the Jews. 4