But that's just the point Cowboy. It's utterly absurd that a truly all-powerful, all-wise God would need to sacrifice anything just to convey knowledge to the objects of his creation.

It doesn't make any sense for a supreme being to associate himself with such disgusting behavior as a crucifixion just to convey a message to humans. Especially if this God can speak to people from the clouds as these fables claim.



There would be no need to sacrifice any life for me.

I realize that you are incapable of comprehending this, but if a truly all-wise supreme being exists he would indeed understand.

That's the problem with this whole religion. To believe in it I would need to be as naive as the people who believe in it. And I would also need to believe that the supreme being himself is just as naive.




It only appears to be "insults" to you because you are obviously insulted by the fact that someone views these Hebrew fables as being too stupid to be representative of a supreme being.

But the fact is that this is precisely why I reject these fables Cowboy. Because they are indeed utterly absurd, IMHO.

How can I avoid this?

This is the main reason that I reject these fables as being "ungodly". They simply don't represent wisdom, intelligence or anything even remotely along those lines.

They don't even represent the intelligence and wisdom that I have seen exhibited by many mere mortal men and women. How can I possibly believe that a supposedly all-wise supreme being would be associated with such ignorance?

This whole Hebrew (or Israelite) society was a bunch of ignorant male-chauvinistic pigs. They were brutal. They stoned their fellow man to death in the name of their superstitious God, and their stories about their God reflected their own crude methods of solving problems.

Why should it be considered to be "insulting" simply because I don't believe that a truly wise and all-intelligent God would not be associated with brutal crucifixions to "pay" for the sins of men.

We're talking here about a God who is supposed to be all-wise, all-powerful, and all-intelligent, why he solves all of his problems in crude ignorant ways?

And even makes a crucifixion the central focal point of obtain his "grace".

I'm sorry if you find it to be offensive or "insulting" if I personally don't view such crude ignorant things to be "ALL_WISE" solutions to problems.

But I just don't.

And I never will.

This is the kind of behavior I would expect from very low-mentality barroom drunkards. Certainly not the kind of solutions I would expect to see from an all-wise supreme being.

That's not mean to "insult". I'm just making the point that I don't see any reason to believe that a supposedly "all-wise" supreme being would use such ignorant methods to try to solve his problems.

They just aren't WISE solutions, IMHO.

And this is why I reject this religion.

Excuse me?

I didn't nail Jesus to any pole, nor to I condone having Jesus nailed to a pole for my sake.

Clearly YOU DO!

So who's the moron Cowboy?



What are you taking about?

I'm talking about Jesus supposedly being God and being nailed to a pole by men in an act that Christians hold to be "The Sacrificial Lamb of God".

That makes absolutely no sense Cowboy.

Who would God have been making this sacrifice TO?

Clearly not to men. Men have no need to have anyone crucified to pay for their sins. The whole need for a "sacrificial lamb" thing comes from these religious superstitions and is supposed to be something that God requires, not men.

There can only be three possible scenarios, none of which make any sense at all.

1. It was God's plan and will that Jesus be crucified to pay for the sins of man, because God himself is appeased by this kind of gory sickness.

That's just utterly sick and demented and suggests that this God is a sick demented God. It's clearly just a man-made fable not all that much different from Zeus, or any other man-made fictitious Godhead.

2. It was God's plan and will that Jesus be crucified to pay for the sins of man, because God had to prove something to Satan.

But that would be Satan making God jump through hoops, and so that can't fly either.

3. It wasn't God's plan and will to have Jesus crucified! That just happened by mistake as mankind's reaction to God sending his son to spread a "New Covenant".

Well, if that were the case, then God fails big time because he didn't even plan for this horrible event and it was just happened anyway when God never meant for it to happen. But that would imply a God who can't even protect his only begotten son from the evil deeds of men. If God can't even protect his only begotten son from the evil deeds of men, then how can any mere mortal man trust God to protect him from anything at all? Yet we are supposed to trust this God to be able to protect us!

None of these scenarios work Cowboy. They all reveal a weak, inferior God. Clearly these stories are fables based on superstitions and exaggerated rumors.

The mere fact that Jesus was crucified tells us with absolute certainty that he wasn't sent from God. It's proof positive that Jesus was just a mortal man who tried to teach better morals than had been taught in the Torah.

We can know with absolute certainty that Jesus was not the "only begotten son" of any God sent to bring humanity a "New Covenant".

We can know with absolute certainty that, at best, Jesus was something like a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who simply tried to help a sick ailing society that had a sick ailing religion.

At worst yet, Jesus never existed at all, and was maliciously invented by men for the express purpose of creating a religion based on an idea of a "Christ" for the purpose of supporting their religious bigotry to the hilt in the name of a God. (no one gets to got but through their religion)

Actually we know for a fact, that this was a common theme in those days for societies to try to trump the religions of all other societies because religion was a politically powerful thing back in those days.

So there is good reason to believe that these men had the motivation to construct such a religion.

~~~~~~

There is no legitimate excuse for a supreme being to have (or allow) his only begotten son to be nailed to a pole by humans to supposedly "pay" for their sins.

Having them disobey him once again by murdering his innocent son would surely not PAY for their sins anyway. All that would to is ADD to their sinful behavior.

Moreover, it wasn't ALL HUMANS who took part in this dastardly mob. This would be like blaming the democrats for the utter stupidity of the republicans today.

I certainly don't associate myself with the mob that would have crucified Jesus. I truly feel sorry for you if you do.

~~~~

The very notion that such a "plan" for salvation of humanity would have come from any supposedly "all-wise" God is nonsense because there is absolutely nothing wise about it.

Such behavior on the part of a God would be utterly foolish and stupid.

You'll never convince me that our creator is as stupid as Christianity demands.

That's never going to fly.

Doctor Who is really cool.

And yes, if you truly love someone set them free. Dragging them around the universe with you will only result in eventual divorce.

There would be nothing almighty about a God who ends up getting himself nailed to a pole by a bunch of ignorant morons.

There would be nothing almighty about a God who has to jump through hoops to prove something to a sniveling demonic fallen angel.

There would be nothing almighty about a God who tried to create a religion to communicate to people his desires only to have that religion fall all apart into so many different opposing and fighting factions, from Judaism, to Islam, to Catholicism, to the rebellious protesting Protestants.

Just a God would be an absolute completely inept moron himself.

If there exists an "Almighty God", he/she/it would certainly have nothing to do with any of the Mediterranean superstitious religions.

God would either need to be a totally mysterious entity described by the Eastern Mystics, or not exist at all.

So really, as a human species we're basically faced with either Eastern Mysticism, or Pure Atheism as being the most likely candidates for a description of reality.

There is something nothing "almighty" about the God of the Hebrew folklore. He's neither powerful, nor wise, nor intelligent, nor anything that he's supposed to be.

These religions shot themselves in their own feet when they proclaimed to know so much about this egotistical God they created. They forced him into a situation where he simply cannot be all-wise, all-powerful, or anything even remotely close to anything like that.

In order for the Hebrew fables to be true, their God would need to be a complete idiot, far beneath a lot of mortal humans.

You don't seem to get it.

If a God creates souls and loses them to a Devil then the God lost the soul that he created. Period.

It's a story about a losing creator.

You keep trying to make it out to be all about humans. But like I said before, that can't be made to work. If there actually is an evil demon who is competing with the creator for souls, than that war, or game, or whatever it is, is entirely between the God and the Demon.

Any humans in the process are nothing more than pawns in a stupid game between a God and a Demon.

I personally thinkest that the very idea of a wicked fallen angel being in competition with God for souls is an utterly absurd idea.


Moreover, this would be a religion where the God actually LOSES the vast majority of souls that he creates. According to the New Testament of this religion Jesus states that the path is straight and the gate is narrow that leads to the Kingdom of God and few will make it.

That can only mean that this Satan fellow is the WINNER of most of the souls that God creates whilst God is the LOSER of most souls.

Does anyone ever THINK about how silly these fables truly are?

A God who is in competition with a fallen angel for souls?

And this God even had to have himself nailed to a pole in the process to offer salvation to a FEW souls because he would have otherwise lost ALL of the souls he created?

Step back from the story and forget about being a human. Just look at the overall story from the perspective of someone outside of this whole scenario. What would you see?

You would see a God in competition with a fallen angel for winning the souls that this God creates and LOSING at that game!

That would be a pretty sad predicament for both the humans and the God. The only winner in this whole scenario would be the evil demon who has made life miserable for BOTH God and humans.

This would be a story of an evil demon who is making God JUMP THROUGH HOOPS, not the least of which would have been getting the God nailed to a pole in the process.


Like I say, forget about being a human. Just think about this situation in connection with some other God, demon, and souls.

It would be a really pathetic situation for everyone, except possibly the evil demon since he apparently thrives on making life miserable for others!

I wouldn't want to be involved in it for sure. And I most certainly wouldn't be drawn to want to believe in such a pathetic situation on PURE FAITH.

On the contrary pure atheism would be a far more inviting picture than this theasco.

For someone who isn't trying to convince other people of his beliefs you sure spend enough time making excuses for your religion and its God.

None of that matters anyway. What I've stated it still true. Any god who would need your help to communicate with people would be one extremely lame god for sure. So it really doesn't even matter what you think you're trying to do or not do.

What I was talking about really has nothing to do with you. What it has to do with is ANY GOD, who would need ANY MORTAL person's help to communicate his message would be a lame God.

That FACT is really totally independent of any religion or proselytizer of a religion.

The bottom line is that "ANY" religion that needs proselytizers, evangelists, or even independent religious zealots, to communicate to people what the "God" of the religion actually "meant" in his supposed Holy Book, is necessarily a false religion.

So this really has nothing to do with you or your religion. It's just an observation that applies to any and all religions where the proselytizers are trying desperately to convince people of what their God actually "meant" to say in his Holy Book.

Clearly all they are attempting to do is shove their own personal interpretations of dogma down the throats of others.

I just heard on the radio that some group of people in Europe are suing the Abrahamic religions for being a crime against humanity with their constant proselytizing harassment, telling people that God will hate them if they don't support a particular religion.

I totally agree. These religions have truly become nothing more than political terrorism.

It will all come to a head at some point and their will finally be international laws against the proselytizing of religions, and or the public claiming that some God will not accept or like people if they don't support a particular interpretation of a particular dogma.

I'm in total agreement that these are indeed "Hate Crimes" being that use the concept of a jealous God to emotionally terrorize people by threatening them that if they fail to cower down to a particular interpretation of dogma some God will hate them.

This can be quite emotionally harmful especially to young people who are unsure of what to believe and often look to adults for advice.

Having the adults fight over who God might accept or reject is truly disgusting Cowboy.

This world would be far better off without any religion at all if that's all it's going to be. Continued religious bigotry and segregation of "Us verses Them" based on what a personal chooses to believe in terms of religion.

That's just disgusting.

Thessalonians was written by Paul.

Try looking up the words that were at least claimed to have been said by Jesus,....

Matt.25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

You can't endure everlasting punishment if you're no longer around to endure it.

These entire scriptures are nothing but a collection of convoluted rumors. And NONE of it was even written by Jesus himself. Not a single solitary word of it. It's all hearsay rumors by other people.

If some God actually wanted to communicate to humanity such an all-important message why even bother leaving it up to morons to write it down as belated and conflicting hearsay?

If Jesus was "THE WORD" in the flesh, then surely he could have written everything down precisely as he wanted it to be stated leaving no room for any ambiguity.

Clearly that DID NOT HAPPEN. And thus it's unrealistic to believe that these hearsay rumors came from any "all-wise" God.

Leaving such an important message to hearsay rumors and gossip is clearly NOT WISE.

End of story, right there.

I'm familiar with the story Cowboy. I don't buy into it. It sounds utterly stupid to me. I don't believe that any supposedly "all-wise" God could possible be as utterly stupid as this scenario suggests. I've already pointed out that, IMHO, it's extremely stupid to think that this God would somehow be appeased by having himself, or his son, nailed to a pole to "PAY" for the sins of mankind. That is totally insane as far as I'm concerned.

If this story makes sense to you, so be it.

However, for you to continually try to convince other people who have already read the story and have rejected is to truly nothing more than insult your very own God.

Why?

Well, if I've already read the book and I've come away from it totally unimpressed and feeling that it's the stupidest story I have ever read, then what makes YOU think that you could change my mind, when supposedly the very "God" that you claim you worship couldn't even convince me via his own book?

All you are basically doing is arrogantly proclaiming that you might be able to outdo your very own God by somehow getting through to people that even your God himself could not convince.

How utterly absurd is that?

If the Bible is "God's Word" and God himself has totally FAILED to convince someone of this, then how arrogant would it be for YOU, or any other mere mortal person, to believe that you could somehow succeed where your God had FAILED?

Think about that for while.

If both God and Jesus have FAILED to convince people of the truth of their very own words, how pathetic would it be that they had to rely on YOU, or any other mere mortal person, to succeed where they had failed.

This religion is clearly not from God. It's entirely a man-made theasco.

Some of the most intelligent humans on the planet have rejected the biblical story.

Albert Einstein, Issac Newton, Richard Feynman, Carl Sagan, Stephen Hawking, and the list goes on and on.

Do you honestly believe that these people are all rejecting "God".

No way. That is utterly insane.

They simply don't believe that any all-wise God could be as utterly stupid as the ancient Hebrews claim. They realize that the biblical stories can't have any more validity than the Greek stories of their Gods and Goddesses.

And if this God himself could not convince people via his very own book, then how absurdly arrogant would it be of any mortal person to believe that they could outdo God by convincing people that God himself failed to convince.

That's pretty much proof positive right there that the religion cannot possibly be true.

Saved from what?

Before you would need to accept Jesus as your "savior" you would first need to proclaim God to be your enemy. Otherwise you would have no reason to be "saved" in the first place.

It makes no sense to talk about Jesus being your "savior" from the wrath of God unless you first consider yourself to be an enemy of God.

So the whole thing is rather senseless for those of us who have never proclaimed to be the enemy of any God in the first place.

The whole scam of proselytizing Jesus as "savior" requires that a person first accept that they are the enemy of God.

A religion can't get any stupider IMHO.

The "New Covenant versus Old Covenant" propaganda to support this bigoted religion cannot work.

This would be a God who is divided against himself, and a God who can't make up his mind how he would like for things to be.

It's asinine to proclaim that this was all "foretold" in prophecies as if God knew that he had screwed things up from the get go, and would eventually need to clean things up.

This kind of excuse for these absurd fables just can't be made to work.

The religion cannot be supported using any form of rationality.

It's a broken record that just keeps repeating the same age-old claims that simply cannot be justified.

The Jews themselves did not buy into this crap from the get go.

So in order for these hateful Christians to be right, their God would need to condemn the Jews no different from Adolf Hitler.

In fact, this kind of support for these ancient fables actually loans support to Hilter's kind antisemitism. And let's go ahead and extend that to Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, and basically everyone. According to the Christians the whole world is nothing but heathens. The Christians even renounce other Christian denominations that don't agree with their specific interpretations of the scriptures.

Christianity has become nothing more than a competition to see who can support divine hatred in the name of Jesus as "The Christ" with the most authority.

Witch Jesus marionette doll will will?

The one wielded by Cowboy? Or someone else's version perhaps Hilter's version of the Christ?

It's a hateful demeaning segregating religion who's only purpose is to condemn anyone and everyone who doesn't worship a specific version and interpretation of dogma.

That's not even what the scriptures themselves claim that Jesus stood for. That's just a gross abuse of the the rumors of Jesus.

You'll never sell Jesus to anyone using him as a vehicle to support religious bigotry and hatred in the name of Christianity.

If you truly care about Jesus at all you'd be far better off supporting him as a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who has become the greatest victim of the religion called "Christianity".

Why continue to use Jesus as an excuse to support religious bigotry and hatred toward all who do not cower down to hateful dogma?

There's no point to it, and clearly the "fruit" of that sort of endeavor speaks for itself as being grossly evil and not divine in any imaginable sense.

How can you continue to support religious bigotry in Jesus' name?

That is both silly, and utterly impossible.

To begin with, if an all powerful God who can do anything wanted to become incarnate in the flesh as a man, he would not need to have been born from a mortal woman and been raised from a baby. He could have simply appeared as a fully grown man out of nowhere.

So this doesn't fit in with the biblical fables of Jesus as a demigod who was partly descendant from King David, the adulterous and murderous King. The fables claim that Jesus was "The Christ" who would necessary have to have been a descendant of King David.

Moreover it's utterly foolish to try to claim that Jesus was "fully God" and "Fully Man" at the same time. That would be an impossibility because men are supposed to have a free will that differs from God's. Otherwise, what would be the point in having them obey God if they already have precisely the same personality and will?

God, as a man, would not be required to do anything other than agree with himself and agree to obey himself. That would be utterly stupid. So it makes absolutely no sense to even suggest that Jesus could have been both fully God and fully man simultaneously. That's just more Christian propaganda and proselytizing baloney.

The tenants of Christianity simply cannot be true. They do not even begin to make any kind of rational sense at all.




The whole idea that a God had to have himself nailed to a pole by the objects of his creation before he could forgive them of their transgressions has to be the most asinine idea that any religious fable has ever come up with.

I could never respect such an idiotic and inept "God" much less worship such a lame being. At the very best all I could do is feel grossly sorry for it.

I most certainly would not want to obey such an idiotic being for the rest of eternity.

So even if these fables were true, all they would be telling us is that our creator is dumber than most barroom drunkards.



MorningSong with all due respect, how can you possible expect me to believe in a supposedly supreme infinitely intelligent God who supposedly requires such dastardly payments for disobedience of his will and desire?

The very idea of a God who is appeased by having someone butchered on a pole (even if it's his very own self) is utterly disgusting and ignorant beyond belief.

You expect me to worship a God who is so sick and demented as that?

Seriously MorningSong, the very best I could do for such a God is feel extremely sorry for it.

What a pathetic image of a God.



And again, it doesn't help.

In fact, that ideology only ends up making things far worse.

The very notion of a God who can't forgive people unless there has been some hideous act performed to PAY for their disobedience is a mentality that I wouldn't even respect in a human, much less from a God.

In order for me to believe in your story I would need to believe that God himself is far more hideous than actual mortal humans whom I have met. In fact, I'd even need to believe that this God has less moral and ethical values than myself.

How can you expect me to believe in a so-called "God" who appears to me to be far lesser of a being than myself?

When I read the biblical fables of this God all that goes through my mind in just about every story is how I would have dealt with these situations far more wisely than these stories claim that God dealt with them.

So for me to believe in these fables I'd have to believe in a God who is far less wise than myself. Either far less wise, or far less capable than a supposedly "all-powerful" God is supposed to be.

They claim that "With God all things are possible". Well, as long as they are going to hold that to be true, then there is no excuse for the stupidity of the behavior of the Biblical God. He would either need to be grossly LIMITED in what he can do, or utterly stupid. There is no other viable explanation, IMHO.

A God who CHOOSES to have himself butchered and nailed to a pole as a symbol of "LOVE" when he supposedly had infinitely many better choices for dealing with the situation at hand would be, IMHO, an absurd idiot unworthy of respect, much less worship.

There is no way that this story can be salvaged.

The Hebrew fables of God have no more merit than any other ancient fables of the time. It was just the same old "demigod" rumors being spread around, and this one just happened to take off. No doubt because it was originally shoved onto people via sword point and threats of social rejection or worse.

It's a religion that gained power through threats. Even threats that if you fail to believe in it the God himself will do dastardly unthinkable horrid things to you.

Believe of be DAMNED, by both society and by God!

That is a truly despicable religion MorningSong.

I am so sorry that you were raised to believe in such a religion. You seem like a nice person. You could have been supporting a far pretty picture of God.

But unfortunately things are as they are.

I'm sure he wasn't. But it's extremely important to Christianity that he was indeed born of a virgin mortal woman who had been impregnated by a God. That's a demigod. Period.

But I agree. He was most likely just a mortal human like the rest of us.

I guess a person really needs to believe in the jealous God of Abraham before they can even begin to support such an egotistical Jesus.

For me, the greatest irony of the whole god-forsaken religion is the fact that there are probably very few, if any, Christians who would actually support a religion that is entirely based on the Old Testament.

The thing that attracts so many people to the idea of Jesus is precisely because Jesus did away with all the stupidity and violence that was in the Old Testament.

Take away Jesus, and you've basically got the Taliban.

If Jesus was a "savior" at all it was only because he was trying to "save" people from a hideous religion. Too bad it backfired and became a religion that merely uses Jesus as an excuse to support the very things that Jesus himself was trying to get people to rise above.

~~~~~

Jesus as a mortal man who tried to save men from a hideous religion would be a respectable person.

Jesus as a demigod born of a virgin and sent as the sacrificial lamb of the God of the Taliban is not respectable at all.

So as far as I'm concerned Jesus is only respectable if he wasn't the "only begotten son" of any God. As a demigod he sucks, IMHO.

Not to mention the fact that his supposedly heavenly Father would have been a far less respectable.

~~~~~~

Of all the events in all of history I wish the world could indeed know the true story of Jesus.

I wonder how many "Christians" would support Jesus as a mortal man? Probably not many. They would probably rather crucify him all over again instead for not being a demigod.

That's the truly sad part.

Christians desperately NEED for Jesus to be a demigod. Anything short of that and they would have nothing at all to do with him.

Two things to consider here:

First, those stats are naturally biased. Most people who live in a society will automatically go along with the religion of those societies. It's the easiest thing to do. Like they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do". It just makes sense.

Moreover, I know a LOT of pagans who present themselves as "Christians" to society at large, simply because they don't want the hassle that comes with not going along with the mainstream religion.

Of course, this sort of thing is changing rapidly due to the Internet. People are quickly learning that there are a LOT of people out there who were doing precisely the same thing. But now people are starting to realize that there are far more people who actually question the mainstream religions than they had ever realized.

~~~~~~~

The second issue has to do with time.

You say, "Last I read nearly 1/3 of the world are Christians, and another 1/4 are muslim"

That's today.

However, before Christianity and Islam were invented most people probably worshiped Zeus, Odin, Thor, Apollo, Athena, and any number of other gods. Not to mention Wanka Tanka who was worshiped by the North American Indians before the Christians moved in and murdered them all.

So times change.

Also like they say, "History is written by the victors", and the same goes for religions too. The people who conquer the world take their god-forsaken religions with them and shove them down the throats of the people they conquer and enslave.

The extreme Christian arrogance over demanding that Jesus is the only begotten son of God is what makes Christianity so utterly despicable.

Even based on the Hebrew scriptures of the New Testament there is really no sane reason for believing that Jesus himself was such an arrogant jerk.

Christians alone are responsible for creating an egotistical monster out of Jesus.

I'm extremely confident that the man himself (assuming that he ever existed at all) would ever support the overly arrogant egotistical religion that has disgraced his name sake and uses it to support precisely the opposite ethical values that he himself was said to have held and taught.

I'm in total agreement with the sentiments of Mahatma Gandhi,....

Jesus himself seemed like a likable person. Totally unlike the Christians who desecrate his name.

Of could that wasn't Mahatma Gandhi's actual words. I think he said something like, "I like your Christ, but I don't care much for your Christians."

~~~~~

In short, I like Jesus, but Christians make me sick to my stomach. They are about as un-Christ-like as anyone I know.

If you truly believe this, then why do you constantly shove verses from these ancient texts in people's faces demanding that they accept your verbatim interpretations?

Why not try letting everyone make up their own mind concerning how they would like to think of "god".

That's supposed to be the PROTESTANT method anyway. That was the whole idea behind the Protestant PROTEST. They protested against the Pope and the Catholic Church as being the "spokespersons" for God.

Yet, apparently you would like to reclaim that role.



I trust that this woman is indeed an adult and can handle herself accordingly. She doesn't need you to babysit her.

Also, have you no TRUST in God?

If God has indeed saved this woman, I'm sure there would be nothing I could do to change that. Nor would I even care to try.

Sounds to me like you have far less FAITH in the POWER of God than I do.

Unlike you, I TRUST God to be victorious over any an all obstacles.

I don't need for Jesus to be the sacrificial lamb of a god who is appeased by blood sacrifices in order to believe in God.

But evidently you do.

Who truly has greater FAITH?

~~~~~

All I do is try to point out that RELIGION is not God.

~~~~~

Where do you get condemnation out of that?

In another place in the New Testament there is an account where Jesus tells a story to his disciples about "lost sheep".

He suggest that if any of them had lost a sheep surely they would go out to find it and bring it home again. Jesus also suggests to them they surely their father who is in heaven would do so even MORE.

So even if Jesus did say these words as they are written verbatim above, it still wouldn't imply that Jesus would "condemn" someone who does not come to him. He could easily go out and seek them out and they would STILL get to the father "by him".

So you post verses in an attempt to support a condemnatory Jesus when, in truth, there isn't even anything in the verses that you post that even remotely suggests any such thing.

~~~~~~

Also, realizing that the entire New Testament is indeed hearsay quotes and rumors of what Jesus "might" have said, and can in no way be expected to be a perfect verbatim recording of his precise words, he may very well have said something ever so slightly different that could have an entirely different meaning altogether.

He might have actually said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by the things I teach."

Given that interpretation, that would allow for any sage who teaches the very same things to also quality as "The Way" to find God.

In fact, that's precisely how I personally interpret this particular passage.

~~~~~~~

There really isn't any justification for your "hardcore" approach to constantly attempting to use scriptures to force a condemnatory portrait of Jesus.

~~~~~

That's just totally uncalled for, and doesn't serve anyone any good, not even your religion.

Truly.

Dogs have humans beat paws-down when it comes to unconditional love.